Chris Musina is an art professor at UNC-Chapel Hill. He received his BFA from the University of South Florida in 2004 and his MFA here at UNC Chapel Hill in 2012. His primary style is naturalistic painting, but he also enjoys other mediums and styles. We spoke to him about how he got into teaching, how he engages students, and his experience with abstract art. His insights showed us how an arts educator teaches art and what we could learn from that and apply to our own educational materials.
Q: Introduction to the project: My class is English 301, Professional Writing in the Arts. We have an exhibit in the Ackland, and so we're looking at “Fire” by Sam Gilliam, “Bozrah” by James Brooks, “Cosmic Theme No. Three” by Raymond Jonson, and “Crossroads” by Felrath Hines. We have an abstract art unit exploring how people engage with abstract art and trying to just get more community involvement in museums.
Q: How did you get into art?
A: Oh, boy. I think I was always interested in, you know, visual media, you know what I mean, like, even like, you know, being young, little kid, you know, like cartoons, comic books, books about nature, you know, with illustrations in them. So, like that stuff had always appealed to me, I think growing up. I think once I got to high school and started taking art classes, you know, I know everyone draws and things when they're little, but like, start taking some art classes in high school, and I really felt it was a great way to sort of express my ideas. Honestly, I was going to go to art school initially, and then I changed my mind, you know, senior year of high school, and sort of went on, tried to do something different, you know. And then I wasn’t just really happy with what I was doing. And then I took another art class in college, and that really just like, rewired it and told me, Oh, okay, yeah, that is the path I was supposed to be on, right? So I think it was a lot of just, I think just starting, you know, in high school, you know, you go to some art museums, you see some art that's outside of, like, what your experience I was, you know, at that point my life, I lived in a small town in Florida, and so we didn't really have great museums, you know. I mean, the closest museum was about two hours away, you know. So it wasn't like seeing a lot of art that was, like, fine art, until I think I got to high school, and then we went on some field trips, and we did some of that kind of stuff. And then obviously University, sort of, like, it opens all the doors, and you see art that, you know, might not be like, oh, what high schoolers are looking at, you know? And that really just opened, opened up my world. And I think once I had that one class, it was just like, okay, straightforward. I had no, no, no, feelings of, I need to do anything else. It's like, this is what I have to do.
Q: So your first art class was in high school?
A: I mean, well, you know, I had middle school and elementary school, but those art classes are a little more like, you know, everybody's sort of taking it. And then once you get to high school, you have to select the classes you take. And, you know, sort of, I took art in high school, and I really, yeah, sort of like, was the, I think that was the real seed was high school versus, like, the, you know, the younger stuff.
Q: What types of art are you drawn to?
A: I mean, I really like all kinds of art. Personally, I make, you know, representational work. I paint things, or I draw things, you know, actual things. And I deal with a lot of animals and stuff, which sort of, I think comes out of that interest in, like, nature art early on. But as far as like, what I like, I like everything. You know, I like things that push boundaries a little bit, or pieces that have a certain intensity to them tend to draw me in even, like, abstract. I also like things where, like, there's a lot of, like, strong use of color and composition. I like sort of bold composition, usually, so something that's got a sort of stark, strong element to it, right, abstract or representational, rather than having something with a whole bunch of little things, I like, a big, strong like, boom, here's the thing I kind of, I'm drawn to that in most things.
One of my favorite artists is Philip Guston, who started out representational, then became an abstract artist, and became really successful as an abstract artist, and then moved back into representation. His sort of path is one that I've always just really liked. I liked all the pieces of it, and I can see the connections where he's doing similar things in the different styles, like he's using the same kind of colors and compositions, but he's doing it in very different ways. I think that he has always been one of the people that I really look at, and when I think about how abstract and representational art can use some of the same compositional elements, but do it totally differently, he's someone that I'm definitely drawn to.
Q: Could you speak more to art pieces that push boundaries?
A: Yeah, I think about art historically. I really like Francisco Goya. He had prints that were critiquing society, he had sort of darker paintings like "Saturn Devouring His Son." Like, everyone kind of knows that painting. He's painting those kinds of things in a time where maybe society wasn't quite ready for all that stuff, and I always think that's really interesting. I think you could say Philip Guston as he sort of brought a cartoon aspect into the art world, you know,while being a more highbrow abstract artist, then also he brings in cartoon stuff and how that pushes boundaries. You know he's talking about society and culture in his work as well. So I think that always draws me. I think contemporary artists that maybe deal with things like race or gender or gender issues, you know, like how they decide and how they work with those things, when it sort of, like pushes kind of stuff like that, that's, I think that's, what's always going to be interesting.
Q: In our class, we've talked about how museums have to be spaces of social justice, and they need to represent a wide variety of artists and a wide variety of pieces. Museums need to make sure that the people who are visiting feel represented.
A: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. Now that’s what museums do, they are pushing those boundaries, and I love to see it, you know. I think, like, historically, maybe that wasn't always the case, right?
Q: Do you feel like the types of art that you're drawn to versus the types of art you make are similar? Or do you see a little bit of difference?
A: I think there's a difference. I mean, I definitely make work where I'm thinking about culture and critiquing culture. I think as an artist, you're going to kind of make some of what you're drawn to, but again, I love work that sort of looks all kinds of different ways. I'm not necessarily making work that looks just like my favorite artists, because some of my favorite artists make work that looks nothing like mine. I guess it's one of those things where it's 50-50. On the one hand it’s like, yes, I feel like I'm trying to make work that fits into the broader world of what I'm interested in, but I'm drawn to artists who make work that looks completely different from mine, or ones that do make work similar. I think when it gets too similar, I maybe pull back a little more from those ones. However, I do lean to the ones that are content wise in the same space, but when it's like, too close, maybe not.
Q: What brought you to teaching?
A: I went to grad school, and in grad school, we had the opportunity to teach. I'd always liked teaching; I always connected with professors or teachers. I've always really liked that sort of relationship on the student side. Then, once I was in grad school and had the opportunity to teach a class, I really found that it was something I found rewarding. I found reward in sharing my knowledge base with people and seeing them grow. I think it hit a spark, and I really enjoyed it. I've taught at different places and I've taught in different ways, but the relationship teaching students is always the best part of any teaching job. I think there's just something about sharing your knowledge and I like that it really sort of starts out hierarchical and, you know, I'm the professor with the knowledge, and the students don't have it, and then they build their skill set, and they find their path. Then by the end of it the hierarchy starts leveling out because they're starting to understand things, and you're just sharing and watching people grow. I think that's really fun.
Q: How do you teach students to engage with art?
A: In lectures, trying to show work that is exciting and engaging is a big part of it. Getting students to engage with a piece and ask how do they work with it? How do they think about it? I think projects are definitely ways to just get students hands on engaging with work and deciding what they like and what they don't like.
Q: What are your favorite assignments you’ve assigned?
A: I do a project where I like to use, like digital preparation in the project making, and I want that project to have a conversation with the digital realm. We see painting being this ancient medium, but then let's think about a conversation with our contemporary society, where the digital is everywhere. So, how do we engage with that in art? And how do we engage with that in one of the oldest art practices, and so, for me, it's sort of fun to see how students start thinking about how do you talk about the digital in painting. How do you, how do you have that conversation? A project like that where I really start to open up some themes and some ideas. It’s also showing them and they can sketch out their painting digitally and then work from that. It doesn't always have to have the digital content, but sort of doing that one-two kind of thing where we're both engaging the content of using digital but also sketching out a painting in a contemporary way.
Q: Do you feel like the students that you teach, mostly want to be art majors/ are following the studio art path, or do you have more students wanting to take an art class for fun?
A: I think it always depends on the level of the class. You know, if you're in painting one, drawing one, a lot of times it's going to be maybe 50/50, sometimes even more students that aren't art majors, that are just trying to do it for fun. Then as you get to the higher levels, it becomes more and more art majors. Yet it doesn't always mean that the art majors aren't always like the best painters. Sometimes, the best painter is someone who's a biology major, they really like to do it, and they can engage with it on an ideas level. It's not always about who's the major, who's not, to determine who is going to do really well in a class.
Q: Do you have different strategies for those 50/50 classes?
A: I try to teach everybody from where they are, so no matter what, I'm sort of coming into a class thinking somebody has been painting for five years, 10 years, they know what they're doing, and somebody has never touched a paintbrush before. In this class, how am I going to teach them both, right? It's not really fair to judge certain things. So I come to everybody where they are, and I structure projects so the idea is we are all getting better from our starting point, and then I'm going to grade you based on - if you come in and you're pretty good, and you don't really get any better, you might not get as good a grade as somebody who comes in and they can do a stick figure, and then all of a sudden they've really figured out where they are, and they've figured out how to push themselves, and they've learned, and they've progressed. I think it's just really trying to meet everybody where they are and then move up from there at an equal pace across.
Q: I know you spoke briefly about being drawn to more realistic art. Yet, what is your experience with abstract art? Have you taken any classes on it?
A: When I was an undergrad, I took a lot of painting classes, and some of them we dealt with abstract and some of them were based in realism. My own style tends to be in realism, but I do love abstract art. I mean, that's like a lot of the art I do love. You know, when I teach, even my very first painting start, we start out with an abstract painting. It's because it's about materials and processes and techniques that build toward other things. Then, you know, in more advanced painting classes, you get more into abstraction. I think, in the early side of painting, I tend to be more like we're gonna do a still life, and there's always room for abstraction. I start with the first couple of paintings that deal with more form and technique, and those are abstract. Then we move into representational work at the other half of the semester. Then, at the end, students can kind of do what they want. So if somebody wants to do abstract, that's another chance to do it. That's for Painting One. Then once you get into more advanced painting, like Painting Two, we are going to have an abstract painting as one of our pieces. We're going to look a little more deeply into the history of abstraction, what's happening in contemporary abstract painting, and how do we sort of employ those things.
Q: So you mentioned techniques. Would you say there are different techniques involved in abstraction versus realism?
A: I think you can use the techniques for both, in both. I don't think painting has hard, hard rules like that. A lot of what I'm teaching in the early abstract stuff is that I'm like here's how we mix colors, here's how we apply different colors in different ways. Then you can use those ways later on, right? Say you're sort thinking about color and geometric forms, and you're creating sort of like this abstract sense of depth. If you get into realism, something that you can do in realism to paint better realism is to be like, “Okay, let me break down this object into its color and shape. Forget that I'm looking at a bowl of fruit, what are the physical shapes? What are the colors that are happening here?” That's really the same thing as abstract painting. I think they're super connected, and I think you can do both well and be the same person, you know? I mean, it's not like we can only do one or only do the other. There are certain historical techniques that you use in realism that you can use an abstraction. You can be like, “Okay, I'm going to use glazing techniques and build up a glazed painting.” Of course that works for a renaissance style painting, but you can also do that in a contemporary abstract painting. The difference is you're not doing it to make this look like a bowl of fruit, you’re building this up to see what happens when I layer these colors. What's the visual thing that's happening here? It’s not about the object but about the physical object of the painting.
Q: How do you discern themes from both realism and abstraction? When you look at a painting, how do you know what it's trying to say?
A: I personally, always think what the painting says is what the viewer sees. You know what I mean? I think it's really up to the viewer and what they take from the painting. When I'm looking at abstract painting, a lot of what I'm thinking about is how are they using materials? How are they using color? How are they creating form? How are they drawing me in? Are they giving me the sense this is an overwhelming experience? Can I see the artist's hand? Or is the artist's hand completely gone? I'm really thinking about the technical stuff when I get into looking at abstract painting. Then, you know, when you get into a realist painting, obviously you can convey a lot more. Like, oh, this is supposed to be about this because you have images to tell you the story. Once you get past the images in a representational painting, you can get into “Oh, here's the technical things that they did,” right? But I think an abstract painting for me, [my observations] start with what are the techniques, what are the materials? I'm not somebody who's going to go to an abstract painting and be like, “Oh, I see a mountain” because I think that does a service to the abstract painting. I think abstract painting is not about trying to find images and trying to find a story. It's really about the ultimate process, and maybe the materials can tell a story. I mean, if you're using certain materials that have some kind of history to them, or some kind of, like conversation. Let’s say you're using a quilt in your abstract painting, you know, or quilting processes, well, then you're talking about quilting. What is that saying? What is that doing? I think that tells a story, but in a very different way than if you have a painting of somebody who is sewing a quilt, right? What are you saying in both of those things? You're using quilts, and I pick quilts randomly, but you're using quilts, and if you paint a person who's selling a quilt, that tells one story, but if you’re using the process of quilting in this painting that's going to tell a different story. One of those is so much more about the materials and process, and one of those is more about the narrative structure.
Q: What strategies do you feel can be used to get kids more engaged with art at a younger age?
A: I think a big thing is just exposure to art, you know, bringing them to spaces where art is made, where art is happening, where they can see art, letting them make art, and letting them make what they want to, you know, not really try and direct it, which is letting them have that freedom of expression. I think once they get that sort of freedom, once they taste that “oh, I can say a thing here, with the thing I do,” they might get sort of hooked on the making. A lot of kids are, obviously, from the start, more interested in the making part than the going to see. I think some of it, too, is maybe even museums bringing in work that draws kids in, and then having the other work that's also there, right? So, like, instead of you know, being like, “Oh, I'm gonna take a five year old to go see this abstract art show,” and they're gonna be bored out of their mind, maybe you take them in and there's some kind of, like, illustrative show about cats, and they're gonna be, like, excited to see that, but then they're gonna see the other work, and it's gonna, stick in their brain a little bit, and then you can sort of go from the one exhibit to the other exhibit and engage that other work. I think that's something that could happen, but I really think exposure to art is a big part of it.
Q: Do you feel like you've been to museums that have done that effectively?
A: I do think most museums feel like adult spaces. So when we start talking about kids, I think most museums do feel like adult spaces. I know the Ackland has a program for kids. I know most museums have programs to engage kids with the work, but I do wonder if there's ways that museums could think about taking a higher brow approach to work that kids are going to be drawn to to begin with. Like can you give us a show where maybe we're talking about, for example, Studio Ghibli films, and also bringing in contemporary art that connects with that and shows that work together? Are there ways that you can find these connections with things that kids are already interested in, rather than trying to make them interested in something that they might or might not be? I think connection is key, you know. I think finding ways to like, really engage kids and kids from young through teenagers, you know, because when you get into middle school and high school, that's really the key time to go. If you can get engaged with artwork you're somehow connecting “Oh, okay, now I understand that. Like, you know, this Ghibli, feel like Miyazaki is also looking at the history of Japanese woodblock print in how he forms his landscapes.” So maybe seeing those two things together, you're like, “Oh, he didn't just make this up. He sort of understood a history of art. And so maybe if I can engage with the history of art, I can make interesting things too.”
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